Warning: This is a rush transcript generated automatically and may contain errors.
Asbed Bedrossian: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Conversations on Groong episode with former ambassador and diplomat, Dziunik Aghajanian. We are joining so that we can talk about the latest developments in Yerevan. Ambassador, how are you? Welcome back to the Groong podcast.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Thank you very much. Good evening to everybody. Trying to be good.
Hovik Manucharyan: Great to have you again, Ambassador Aghajanian, and thank you for accommodating us.
Dziunik Aghajanian: It’s my pleasure.
Hovik Manucharyan: outcomes. the pleasure is ours.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Ha ha.
Hovik Manucharyan: But let’s quickly talk about the elections in the United States.
Hovik Manucharyan: You know, the results, I think, by many accounts could complicate Trump’s policy towards Iran, which is what we’re concerned about. With the Democratic gains, for instance, the administration now faces increased scrutiny over military expenditures, potential foreign policy actions. It all depends on how much the Democrats are willing to challenge the administration in various different stages of their activities. For Tehran, the practical question is whether the election results change Washington’s decisions or simply make them more politically contentious.
Dziunik, how do you think Iran is analyzing the results of these elections, especially as it concerns the risk of renewed war and whether that is higher or lower now?
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, I think from what I’ve heard from the Iranian side, they are giving a very sober account of the results of the elections. And honestly, it was expected to have this kind of an outcome because this discontent in the public was so obvious that it would simply translate into loss of seats in both houses. Some analysts were hoping that the Senate will still stay Republican, but apparently the public in the US really showed its disagreement, especially with policies carried out in the Middle East and the way it was carried out, I would say.
We have seen during several last elections, I think the last 3-4 elections we have seen this discontent vote pattern prevail for both parties, towards Republican and towards Democratic, and it is normal because people want a peace and quiet life where they can plan their day future, and they don’t want any negative outcomes of policies carried by the people elected towards their pocket and their well-being. What we have seen is simply the result of this kind of an attitude.
And I think Iranians are totally understanding this, and they know that the U.S. policies, the American attitude in the elite, in the political elite, no matter whether it’s Republican or Democratic, internationally it doesn’t change. So the plans will be there. The way they are carried out might change, as we have seen during the Democratic period. It will be disguised under human rights or other democratic values. pretexts, but the main target and the main purpose will still stay the same.
Of course, Trump administration will have difficulty jumping into another military action right now, but I have also noted in my previous, I think, interview that most probably they are preparing for a much bigger and ground operation involved plan. And we already see these kind of steps being taken with regards to the neighbors. So it is going nowhere. I think what we will see in the coming Congress, it’s some kind of a bargaining.
So there will be a bargain. Democrats will ask for more support towards Ukraine in return for Trump’s actions in Iran. And that will be really devastating for the American public because I think public voted for no war and peace situation, just leaving people in other parts of the world alone and just focusing on internal affairs. But I don’t, from what I hear, the Democrats are full of revenge and they are going to push for their agenda.
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah.
Dziunik Aghajanian: And globalist centers, I’m sure they are not going to leave the situation alone and they will be pushing their agendas forward. So we will see this gap between the public wishes and desires and the political demonstration of it in both Congress and the administration, this keeps widening and the differences becoming more vivid and more acute. You know, I was thinking that if you had a third party or a third player in the ground, for this third player rather than Republican or Democratic, but they had no other choice but to choose between those two. So I think the plan is there.
They will be working towards a bigger military operation that would involve ground participation from neighboring states, and that part is going nowhere. But I would see more of a bargaining as Trump is very eager to have deals. So there will be some kind of a deal with Democratic Party of support to Ukraine in return for their support to his plans in the Middle East. We will see that coming.
Hovik Manucharyan: Strange how these deals result in more wars on both sides, increased chance of…
Dziunik Aghajanian: I would say it will result in more devastation and losses, and losses also on behalf of the American prestige and its position in the world. But I think that, you know, the mentality of people sitting both in Washington, D.C. and also in European capitals is such that they cannot simply give up their plans. They have been working on that for too long. It has become part of it.
It has become their backbone. They cannot just simply stop it. And they cannot simply believe that they are failing on every single step.
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah.
Dziunik Aghajanian: And given the fact that they are putting a lot of money and efforts into military industrial complex to refurbish their military potential and get ready for a bigger war, both against Russia and also against Iran, we will see more and more tensions arising. But I think both Iran and Russia and also China understand the situation. On one side, they are, of course, giving or leaving the door open for negotiations, but I don’t think they are believing in any positive outcome at this stage.
As I said, the mentality hasn’t changed, and we will not see a change in mentality until new blood comes into politics. that haven’t been fed by this, I call it, star disease. That they are the only ones, that they are the ones making the rules, and everybody else has to follow their lead. So this is the situation. We are getting into more chaos.
Asbed Bedrossian: You mentioned the possibility of renewed hostilities involving ground troops. Where would this front be? We have talked on our show about this CNN report from June, talking about how Israel is setting up elite troops that can take operations inside Iran’s territory. Is this going to start a war right on the borders of Armenia and involve Azerbaijani troops possibly?
Is Armenia doing anything ready to get ready for this kind of immediacy of the war on its border?
Dziunik Aghajanian: No. Well, it will involve all neighbors, of course, and we have seen already signs of it in previous attempts. It was planned to have Kurds as the four force coming into Iran during the January and February events. It will definitely involve Turkey and Azerbaijan, and we have already spoken about that.
Turkey understood that the initial plan is just falling apart, and they withdrew from their initial agreements. It will definitely involve Afghanistan and Pakistan, because they are neighboring, and the infiltration from those areas into Iranian territory. Very easy. And of course, a bigger chunk of it will be internal disruptions in Iran and also attempts to have both Western Azerbaijan and also the southern parts of Iran also in riots, and hopefully separatist movements or separatist elements there start some kind of armed action in support of which insurrections,
Asbed Bedrossian: Insurrection.
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah.
Dziunik Aghajanian: in support of which they will jump into Iranian territory. So it will definitely involve everybody around. And that’s why TRIPP was so eagerly put into place. And from the initial plans, it was already thought as the connecting part between Turkey and Azerbaijan for the purposes of supplying weaponry and manpower when the military actions from the northern part of Iran from Artsakh-occupied territories will be carried out.
And that’s one of the reasons why Artsakh was simply given to Azerbaijan as a bonus
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah.
Dziunik Aghajanian: for its commitments in this plan, in these actions that are supposed to take place. So these plans have gone nowhere. We will see just a kind of a tuning of it and a reshaping of it and presenting it to us in different shapes. And the first initial signs of it came from Israel when they tried to blame Iran of the possibility of using chemical weapons, whereas Iran has suffered from chemical weapons. and I have been in OPCW Dublin.
I know how serious they are towards their own commitments with regards to Chemical Weapons Convention. So it’s just another effort to garner support from Western countries in order to strike Iran. So this is going nowhere.
Hovik Manucharyan: Dev.
Dziunik Aghajanian: It will happen. It’s simply a time issue and organization issue, and it will happen during Trump administration period. Trump is not giving up on its plans. It cannot swallow this very bitter pill of losses in the Persian Gulf and in the Middle East, and neither Netanyahu.
And I don’t know what will be the outcome of their coalition, possibly government, because what I see, I don’t think they will go for another elections. It will be too risky and too dangerous. But the people sitting there have not given up on the idea of bringing Iran to its
Dziunik Aghajanian: knees.
Hovik Manucharyan: Speaking of TRIPP, we have seen repeated attempts over the last, ever since these ideas were floated and announced, we have seen repeated warnings from Iran about TRIPP, about Iran’s red lines and the most recent was just two days ago, just yesterday, when, according to Tasnim, Ali Akbar Velayati, who is the advisor to the leader of the Islamic Revolution, promised strong consequences for Trump if Iran’s red lines are violated near its own borders. Also, this statement from Velayati was markedly anti-Pashinyan.
He basically accused Pashinyan saying that his policies have done nothing but create problems for Armenia and embarrassment for the Armenian nation. Now, what do you think Iran would need to see in the TRIPP arrangements to consider its concerns addressed, to consider its red lines still intact?
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, TRIPP has to be only a road or a railroad connecting with full control from the Armenian side. It means security, customs, everything in Armenia’s official sense. No foreign presence whatsoever in whatever capacity either on the road or on the railroad or on the border, but that’s not the case. Also, I think we ourselves have issues with this arrangement that has been put there because 74% belongs to the U.S.
The U.S. carries responsibility, no legal responsibility towards this memorandum, you don’t know what to call it. It’s not even a normal agreement. And in this case, there are so many questions that remain unanswered with regard to the location, width, actual logistics, the possible veto power from the Armenian side on passage of this 74% to a third party or the third party participation in the arrangements of the TRIPP project. So all these questions are there.
They have gone nowhere.
Asbed Bedrossian: May I interrupt for just one comment?
Dziunik Aghajanian: And they raise very serious…
Asbed Bedrossian: And without knowing any of this information with so many questions still unknown, the Civil Contract party voted to ratify this.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, of course, they are told, yes, they are told to ratify,
Asbed Bedrossian: Which is to me unbelievable.
Dziunik Aghajanian: and they simply follow the orders coming from overseas, and also the neighboring Azerbaijan and Turkey.
Asbed Bedrossian: Sorry.
Dziunik Aghajanian: And also, this is part of the, as I said, TRIPP has to be there to provide the logistics for the transfer of weaponry and manpower, and that’s why they’re rushing to have it in place, when this big military action against Iran is supposed to take place. So this is not for Armenia. This has nothing to bring to Armenia, whether economically or militarily or politically or geographically. Nothing.
And even it raises more questions about whether already there is some participation from the Azerbaijani side financing the project itself because of the direct negotiations that the American and Azeri officials have been carrying out behind our backs. So there are so many questions, and they all raise these question marks of what exactly this project is about. And when you compare all the elements, the conclusion is that this is exactly the Zangezur corridor that Turkey and the conclusion is that this is exactly the Zangezur corridor that Turkey and So this is what is there.
And of course, Velayati is right that the current administration’s policies carried out simply endangered the existence of both the Armenian Republic and the Armenian people in our homeland. We have been talking about this for such a long time, and now it becomes obvious from even the discussions in the parliament when they were attempting to ratify this document that has no details.
I even gave an example that, according to Armenian internal legislation, if you are going to build something or remodel in your apartment some parts of it, you have to give very detailed plans, blueprints, everything, get the approvals, get all the documentation, and then follow a report on that approval, and then get the permission to start the construction. So it’s a very lengthy process and a very detailed legal process that you have to follow.
And now we are giving 42 kilometers of our territory with an unknown width to somebody with unknown details about what exactly we’ll be passing from, what part of Armenia it will be connecting to, where it will be connecting, what it will be organized by, who will be in control.
Asbed Bedrossian: Yeah, we simply don’t know.
Dziunik Aghajanian: All these questions are just there. Nobody answers those questions. How they will be passing through this area? What will be the mechanism according to which the Armenian people will be using it?
So all these questions are just hanging in the air with no answers, and they are ratifying it.
Hovik Manucharyan: Crazy.
Dziunik Aghajanian: It really shows the craziness of the situation and the rightfulness of all those that are saying this is not beneficial for Armenia or Armenian Republic. And it only puts us at risk with the coming developments that we will be seeing in this region. So this is really very dangerous.
Hovik Manucharyan: with this change in power, at least in the legislative branch of the United States, what do you think can realistically change about TRIPP? And should the Armenian regime be worried about the project’s dependence on Trump personally? What are your thoughts?
Dziunik Aghajanian: I don’t think anything will change about TRIPP.
Hovik Manucharyan: Hmm.
Dziunik Aghajanian: I don’t think anything. Maybe some delays in the timing.
Hovik Manucharyan: Maybe the name. Yeah.
Dziunik Aghajanian: No, no, even the name will not change. He is still in power. He is still in control of foreign policy. I don’t think it will change anything in the region because this is part of this big global project that has been carried out for the last decade.
Let’s remember Bolton coming here in 2018 statements, and it was during Trump time we lost Karabakh during Trump, I mean the war happened in Trump period. First Trump period, then the Biden administration was very working very closely to depopulate Artsakh from its Armenian indigenous population and they gave a green light to ethnic cleansing in the 21st century of the Armenian population just simply to satisfy the Turkish demands. So, I mean, all these arrangements have been put there during both Republican and Democratic administrations. I don’t think anything will change.
They have come to this stage when they have this document and they have this foundation that will be fulfilling it, that they have agreements from Azeri’s side to finance the project. And I don’t think anything will change. I don’t expect anything to change.
Asbed Bedrossian: There’s currently a lot of saber-rattling that’s going on about restarting the Iran war . A quick question, how likely, has the U.S. election actually raised or lowered or kept unchanged the risk of renewal of the war
Dziunik Aghajanian: No, the risk of renewal is there.
Asbed Bedrossian: in Iran?
Dziunik Aghajanian: As I have explained, they may not go to resumption right now, simply because, firstly, they don’t have the necessary arrangements in place, and they understand fully that a simple military attack from the air will not do anything. They have tried it several times. It will not solve the problem. And they need the ground operation.
The ground operation needs proper preparation. So they are preparing for it now. And as I have stated on multiple occasions, I expect it to happen in the spring of the coming year.
You know, Trump administration is somehow in a shock now. but in a week or 10 days time they will recover easily then they will find ways to work with the Democratic Party, as I said, going into different kinds of bargains in return for their support for their coming operations, and as that was also part of this big global plan, the destruction of Iran and getting hold of all the gas and oil resources that it has, both in the Caspian area and also in the Persian Gulf, it will be there. It will be staying there. Just the way it will be presented to us will change a little bit, but the situation will not change. The plan is there.
They will go for it. It’s just a matter of time.
Asbed Bedrossian: Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think they’ll get back on their feet and back on the project.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Yeah.
Asbed Bedrossian: Ambassador, I want to change our attention, turn our attention to what’s going on in Yerevan domestically.
Asbed Bedrossian: the current defining battle going on, unfolding in Armenia, centers on Pashinyan’s drive to enact a new constitution. I’ll call it Aliyev ’s constitution, which the opposition rejects as a clear concession demanded by Azerbaijan. The ruling party, Civil Contract, lacks the 70 parliamentary votes, the two-thirds majority needed to put the measure to a public referendum. So now Pashinyan has escalated coercion, and I guess we’re finally starting to understand what he meant by saying he hopes to convince some of the opposition members to vote with him.
If this is convincing, we’re seeing it.
Hovik Manucharyan: Or give them an offer that they can’t refuse, essentially.
Asbed Bedrossian: That’s right. He is combining threats of snap election, legislative efforts to lower voting thresholds with widespread legal and law enforcement crackdowns. Just in the past two days, today is November 6th. On November 4th, he was of the opposition leaders.
Key opposition figures, we’re talking about Samvel Karapetyan of Strong Armenia, Robert Kocharyan of Hayastan Dashink, Gagik Tsarukyan of Prosperous Armenia, the party that he fraudulently kept out of the parliament. So now also, as a reaction, I believe, to all of these repressions, representatives from 13 different political groups met at Samvel Karapetyan’s residence while he was getting arrested in Yerevan and agreed to put their ideological differences, procedural differences, all aside and signed a landmark joint declaration. We’ll put the link in our show notes, establishing a unified front.
Okay, so I have a couple of questions, a couple of why now questions. Why now this sudden urgency on the part of Pashinyan, pushing so hard to get Aliyev’s constitution enacted? And why now, finally, is the opposition putting itself together, consolidating? Why couldn’t they do it in June?
What’s suddenly pushing them to say, oh my God, it’s the 11th hour, so let’s do something about this?
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, first, let’s just simply note that nobody has seen this new constitution. And except for the statement that it will not include reference to Armenia’s Declaration of Independence, nobody knows what is in this new constitution. And Pashinyan promised it will publish it at the end of last year. They did not do that.
They would publish it in March. They did not do it, and now they are trying to get support on something that nobody has seen and nobody knows the details.
Asbed Bedrossian: Right.
Dziunik Aghajanian: It’s just like TRIPP, the TRIPP project. Nobody knows it, nobody knows what it is, but we know that it is charted of both Azerbaijan and Turkey, and it has nothing to do with Armenia’s independence, Armenia’s state, and Armenia’s future interests and possibilities of keeping the state intact as an Armenian state. So this is, let’s register that as an objective reality that is there. But the thing is that it comes to our previous discussion.
In order for this TRIPP project and the plan to work, meaning Turkey, from Turkey to Azerbaijan, the possibility of transfer of weaponry and manpower, they need the border with Turkey to be opened. And in order for Turkey to open the border, there is a precondition of having this peace, so-called peace agreement with Azerbaijan, and Azerbaijan uses this desire of the Armenian ruling party and pushing forward for new and new concessions.
Initially, this idea of the constitution was put forward by Azerbaijan in order to delay their agreement of signing the so-called peace agreement, because they were pushed to have this military participation in the military action against Iran. And they were trying to find ways that will delay that and get away in this situation. Somehow, the situation is repeating the way we have seen in 2023, the same thing, when they were trying to force Azerbaijan to open a second front against Russia. And that’s why they went into military actions against Armenians in Karabakh.
And Karabakh was simply presented to Azerbaijan as a bonus. Now the same situation is repeating as we have seen previously. But because as we go and those that have paid to Turkey and Azerbaijan for their commitments are asking more persistently to fulfill their commitments, they are coming up with new demands. And as we call it, the bill is being paid by Armenia and the Armenian government.
So now they are pushing for this new constitution in order to have this so-called peace agreement signed by Azerbaijan, which will open the way for the establishment of diplomatic relations and opening a border with Turkey. So this is this chain, how it is working. So that’s why they are pushing, or the West is pushing Pashinyan to have this constitution adopted, so that Azerbaijan will have no way of saying, no, we cannot sign this peace agreement, and then do their job of starting the actions and using Artsakh’s occupied areas against Iran. This is how it is going.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Now, what happened in the elections in Armenia? I think some of the parties, especially the major one, Strong Armenia, believed that they have enough of public support that will help them change the situation internally. Though we were explaining it to them that not a single party will be strong enough to garner the support of pushing this ruling party out of power because of, well, the global centers are not going to give up their efforts and easily give away Armenia when they have, after so many years, got hold of it.
So now they are realizing all the dangers that came out of these that they during the election period and the effect of it on Armenia and the country and the state. And now they have understood that in order for their efforts to be more productive, they need to join with everybody. Everybody really in opposition, not just stating that they are opposition, but really in opposition. And those that are standing for Armenia’s interest, standing by the Armenian Church , and standing by the people of Armenia.
So that’s why they have come together. It’s the first step forward, but it will take a lot of effort on their behalf to show that they are really very persistent in their efforts of bringing unity to internal understanding of where we stand and what should be done in order to get rid of this. I would say, power in our country.
Asbed Bedrossian: This Vichy government, so-called.
Hovik Manucharyan: Mwap.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Yeah.
Asbed Bedrossian: Yeah. One of the things that you mentioned, Ambassador, was street action, basically. The funny thing is that Pashinyan himself has been threatening street action to oust the opposition from the parliament.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, he has no power for that.
Asbed Bedrossian: I know, but first of all, I guess it’s a rhetorical question. government have to do organizing protests? They are the government, after all, but in
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, he was calling for revolution in the country, remember?
Asbed Bedrossian: reality that’s that’s all he knows how to do just the
Dziunik Aghajanian: And just,
Asbed Bedrossian: demagoguery and
Dziunik Aghajanian: yeah, being
Asbed Bedrossian: populism
Dziunik Aghajanian: in power, he is calling for revolution again. It’s just stupidity on every step.
Asbed Bedrossian: what the question is does he actually still have the kind of public support that he
Dziunik Aghajanian: No.
Asbed Bedrossian: had back in 2018 to do this he
Dziunik Aghajanian: No. Believe me, if he had the public support, he would have done it by now. He doesn’t think, he knows that he doesn’t have any support. He knows that even the votes that he has got during both the elections in June and recently in the local elections, they are just a matter of fear, pressure, and administrative resource. resource.
It doesn’t end with administrative resource and fear. You cannot bring people to support Aliyev’s constitution or any action against the church. And believe me, in this new constitution, it’s not only the Declaration of Independence. There are so many things that they are afraid to show to the public.
That’s why they are not even publicizing the document. They are not putting it for public discussion, which is required by the law for any constitution to go through before even being discussed in the National Assembly.
Asbed Bedrossian: You know what’s funny? Pashinyan’s own commission, made up of his own cronies and Pashinyan-type people, say that they haven’t had a single meeting about this recently,
Dziunik Aghajanian: Nobody has seen that.
Asbed Bedrossian: and they haven’t seen it.
Dziunik Aghajanian: No, nobody has seen that.
Asbed Bedrossian: Who’s writing it? Is it just Srbuhi Galyan who’s sitting down in a dark office and
Hovik Manucharyan: They actually
Dziunik Aghajanian: No, no, no, no.
Asbed Bedrossian: writing it?
Hovik Manucharyan: petitioned to be disbanded, and the minister, Srbuhi Galyan, refused.
Dziunik Aghajanian: I think, let me
Hovik Manucharyan: So they’re saying they’re not seeing the constitution. Please disband our commission. And Pashinyan is refusing to do that.
Dziunik Aghajanian: You know, it reminds me several years ago, I think it was three years ago, visits by the American ambassador to the constitutional court with, if I’m not, the rumor went that they had the ready-made constitution in their hand when they were trying to present it so that they can get the support of the constitutional judges, you know, because it is also required for the text when it will be presented. so that it will be put for adoption then. And it was several years ago. So this constitution has been written by foreign players, several players, and Turkey and Azerbaijan definitely had a role in it. And let’s not forget that U.S.
Ambassador Barrack is discussing Armenia’s affairs with Erdoğan and with Hakan Fidan, and I think Trump administration has acknowledged that they are relying on their suggestions on how to behave and what kind of actions to take. So I’m sure that it has been charted by foreign players and simply put forward, maybe our legal experts have been playing around to make it more presentable and digestible in certain cases to our public, but I think the major issues will be not acceptable to any Armenian that wants the Armenian Republic, Republic of Armenia and Armenian state to be intact.
And it refers to both the Declaration of Independence, to the role of the Armenian Church, to military power, because what they are trying to do is just disband, probably, the army and probably declare Armenia as a neutral state, which will help them get rid of also the Russian bases and just stop
Asbed Bedrossian: Mm-hmm.
Dziunik Aghajanian: the military cooperation agreement with them and several other things that will be simply simply just killing our identity
Asbed Bedrossian: Right.
Dziunik Aghajanian: it is not not in favor of the Armenian state or Armenian people
Asbed Bedrossian: I mean… Yeah, I mean, Mirzoyan just restated they are open to discussing that, as if somebody is trying to raise the issue and discuss that. Now, we know that the leaders of these parties, Samvel Karapetyan, Kocharyan, Tsarukyan, and I’m also going to include Ruben Vardanyan in Baku, prisoner of war.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Yes.
Asbed Bedrossian: These guys, Armenians, yeah, these guys are Armenians made of steel.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Because April, we had kids was there too. Yeah.
Asbed Bedrossian: They’re not going to break. But what kind of action and support is required from this coalition of the opposition to make sure that every member is able to resist pressure from Civil Contract and Pashinyan so that they are all on the same page with this constitutional process?
Dziunik Aghajanian: You know, there are two opposition factions in the National Assembly, and they will be standing strong. And that’s the first thing to do, not to allow this constitution, because according to the law, it has to pass the National Assembly in order to be put for a referendum. And we know that how referendums or elections will be carried out by Pashinyan, given the examples we saw just very recently. So it will be a violation of all possible rules in order to simply draw some numbers and state that the referendum approved the constitution.
Secondly, I think what is important in this coalition opposition parties or group of opposition parties, I think they have to work with the public. They have to work on every single street and corner and explain to people the dangers that come with the policies carried out by this group sitting in power and the danger and the risk of losing the state because of it. I think what is also important for the public to see that they are capable of coming together and working together.
And it is devastating for Azerbaijan and Turkey to see that despite all the efforts carried out by Pashinyan to break our back the people and the parties are ready to fight for our existence and for our state’s existence and this is something they don’t want to see but I think the people are very slowly, regretfully very slowly waking up and understanding the reality that they are being put into and the reasons why they are facing all this hardship and the state is being sacrificed actually for global plans and global targets. So I think this change is being reflected.
We will see more development in our country and more of the people coming out of their cocoons and trying to really get rid of the artificial fear that they are being fed by this government in order to get them act as they want them to act. That will take time. At the end of the year, when people will count their losses, both in the marzes in the agricultural sector, and they will see what is coming and the development in the region. And you know, we will be facing all these decisions by the Eurasian Economic Union and the impact will be faced by ordinary people, ordinary citizens.
So this is something that slowly but steadily makes people realize that they have to fight for their existence, and the only way to do it is through united action.
Asbed Bedrossian: Yeah, you know what, I completely agree with you. I still don’t understand exactly why the opposition couldn’t at least come together before the June elections to have a stronger presence in the parliament. Now, we don’t know how effective this coalition is going to be, but I’m looking forward to something more than we’ve seen until now.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Well, I’m sure that they will make their own errors, of course, because there are new people, there are old ones, sometimes have difficulty of getting into coordinated action. But I think the fact that the realization is there and the realization has translated into some kind of an action, it’s already a good thing. And it’s empowering people. And that’s the most important thing right now.
Asbed Bedrossian: Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us and talking to us about these developments. We look forward to our next conversation.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Thank you very much.
Asbed Bedrossian: Have a good night.
Hovik Manucharyan: Thank you, Tunik.
Dziunik Aghajanian: You too.
Hovik Manucharyan: Thank you, Ambassador Aghajanian.
Dziunik Aghajanian: You too.
Hovik Manucharyan: And would love to have you back soon.
Dziunik Aghajanian: Hopefully.
Asbed Bedrossian: Take care.
Hovik Manucharyan: Mmhm.
Asbed Bedrossian: Okay, that’s our show today, on November 6, 2026.
Asbed Bedrossian: We’ve been talking with Ms. Dziunik Aghajanian, who has served Armenia through the ranks of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and most recently as a diplomat, as Armenia’s ambassador to such countries as the Netherlands, Malaysia, Indonesia. She was educated at Yerevan State University, Columbia University in New York, and Uppsala University in Sweden. For more information, of course, you can go to our show notes and click on the bios, podcasts.groong.org slash episode number.
Asbed Bedrossian: But more than that, I would like you to continue supporting us in moral, mental, and financial ways. So go to podcasts.groong.org slash donate and give once, twice, three times, but even better, become a sustaining member and keep giving. Thank you so much.
Hovik Manucharyan: Asbed, I think we should do also one more announcement.
Asbed Bedrossian: Mm-hmm.
Hovik Manucharyan: There’s an important rally in Glendale coming up on Sunday, I believe. Why don’t we inform our viewers and listeners about that?
Asbed Bedrossian: So there’s an Artsakh rally. It’s at 5 p.m. on Sunday, November 8th, and it starts at Broadway and Artsakh Avenue, and they walk all the way to, I’m not sure where the ending is, but I think it’s by St. Mary’s Church, which is half a mile away or something like that on Central and
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah.
Asbed Bedrossian: Lomita. There will be thousands of Armenians marching. I will be there, and I hope that you will also be there. And if you know me, then please come and say hi.
I would love to meet you.
Hovik Manucharyan: Yeah, and folks, just another reminder from us at Groong, never compromise on your values, never compromise on your identity, don’t let anyone dictate who you are, especially when it’s your enemy. And with that, I’m Hovik Manucharyan.
Asbed Bedrossian: And Asbed Bedrossian. We’ll talk to you soon. Bye-bye.
Hovik Manucharyan: Bye-bye.