Warning: This is a rush transcript generated automatically and may contain errors.
Asbed: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Armenian News Network Groong Week in Review for July 12, 2026.
Asbed: Folks, thanks for listening to our show. We are always encouraged by you that we are able to bring you intelligent and independent coverage of Armenian news. Hovik and I are here for you. And because we love Armenia and Armenians, and that’s just the end of it.
Just the two of us and our mics. But also maybe with your support as well. We hope that you can shell out a trivial amount and become a sustaining member of Groong. It would go a long way to help us cover our various monthly expenses and the improvements we are working on.
So go to podcasts.groong.org slash donate and give. If that’s not for you, okay, no problem. Help by sharing, hyping, liking, and commenting on our shows. That helps us as well.
Hovik, what are we working on this week?
Hovik: Well, just on that, I think just I want to one sentence. You can call us anything, but you can’t ignore the fact that we’re one of the only independent media out there covering Armenia in the English language. So if you appreciate that, then please consider Asbed’s suggestions. So what are we going to talk about?
Hovik: We’re going to talk about briefly the NATO summit in Ankara. We’re going to talk about the Iran war seemingly picking up and also the circus in Armenia that is continuing. You know, stay tuned for that. And we’ll also cover some interesting comments from the OSCEE Secretary General about helping Pashinyan to remove the Armenian Catholicos.
You heard it right. He was pranked into saying some unpleasant things. And so far, the OSCE has not commented on it, as far as I know. All right, let’s get started, Asbed.
Asbed: Okay, Hovik, let’s start with the 36th NATO Summit that was held in the Turkish Presidential Complex in Ankara on July 7 and 8. All 32 Alliance members were attending. I’ll summarize very, very quickly. Basically, they agreed on $50 billion towards defense technologies, specifically targeting air defense systems, drones, joint military projects, and an agreement for all of the members to go up to 5% of GDP in expenditures for their defense.
There was a commitment made of $70 billion to Ukraine during the coming year, and most of it is going to come from Europe and Canada. So, Canada, say goodbye to a lot of your money. There was a meeting between Zelenskyy and Trump, and Trump promised licensing for Ukraine to start producing its own Patriot missiles.
Hovik: If you’re following the podcast, then you know that we already talked about the NATO summit in previous interviews, but I would call your attention to our interview with Dr. Dmitry Suslov in episode 566. Very recommended. I think it was a very good and interesting interview.
But he basically said that if this ever comes to fruition in terms of the production license, it will be years from now. So he does not expect it to shape the current war. But I think to me, it highlights a race against time for Russia in terms of needing to close the Ukraine war chapter sooner rather than later.
Asbed: Yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of good detail in that episode, 566. You really should check it out because we were talking about how Ukraine may just be a placeholder, giving Europe time so that it can rearm for a greater confrontation between Europe and Russia in the 2030s. For that timeline, maybe some kind of a licensing deal like this one could make sense.
Trump shifted his US stance with Turkey by announcing intentions to lift the 2019 sanctions that they had imposed on Turkey because Turkey went on and purchased Russian S-400 air defense systems. But I believe that those air defense systems are being sold to some Gulf state at present with a US agreement. So basically Trump is saying now that Turkey will be allowed in the F-35 fighter project. Erdoğan also noted a lot of steps that they’re already taking, shipbuilding and other defense manufacturing.
That is a huge amount of collaboration between the two countries.
Hovik: For me, the only takeaway from this is Turkey’s important role for NATO, for Europe, not just for its wars that it is planning and executing currently, but also for long-term projects in terms of shutting out Russia and Iran, specifically Russia for Europe. And that touches upon TRIPP, that touches upon the Middle Corridor. So all of this goes hand in hand. You cannot divorce Turkey from the situation.
In fact, I would say Turkey is now leading the charge in Europe against some of these encroachments. And we’ve always said that as much as TRIPP interests in Europe and Turkey coincide on the TRIPP, It is also essentially a Turkish project because Turkish interests right now mean European interests, mean Western interests. Anyone who is doubting that probably is suffering from delusion. My apologies for the strong comment.
That is really what is happening, in my opinion.
Asbed: Well, you know, they’ve always said that they are the second largest army in NATO after the United States. And the first largest army in Europe. Yeah, that’s the truth. The only thing they are not is a nuclear power, unlike France and the UK, but that’s about it.
The final point I want to make about the NATO summit was a reaffirmation of their commitment to collective defense under Article 5, the famous Article 5. And they all strongly emphasized that Iran must not have, must not acquire nuclear weapons and demanded freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz. Speaking of that, Hovik.
Hovik: Well, what do you know? The so-called ceasefire or truce between US and Iran seems to be breaking down. After only three weeks, both sides are making statements that indicate the MOU is being declared dead. There has been intense crossfire from both sides.
Now, Iran has reportedly closed the Strait of Hormuz and resumed attacks on tankers. That is a trump card that it has. And Trump, who has apparently no cards, claimed that Iran is seeking a new deal. But what’s important to highlight is I think that internal Iranian politics have shifted towards hardliners again.
Who feel emboldened by the massive public support that they have, and especially at the time of the Supreme Leader’s funeral. And many analysts believe that Iran can continue outlasting the U.S. war, at least on the economic front, and at least in terms of the economic war, the closing of the Strait of Hormuz, which No credible Western analyst believes is possible to prevent if Iran really wanted to.
Asbed: One of the things I heard from the time of Khamenei’s funeral, which happened last week in Pashinyan, I think was in attendance, was interesting to me. I think that his son, Mojtaba Khamenei, also said that he would avenge his father’s assassination. And Trump responded to that, that he better not think about any kind of an assassination.
Assassination attempt on the U.S. president himself or there will be 1,000 missiles aimed at Iran I thought it was kind of funny that when Trump heard avenging, he immediately thought that Iran would try to kill him, which I think is a ridiculous idea and very self-centered and narcissistic on the part of Trump. One of the other things that Mustafa said is that he will continue on the path that his father had set. And we don’t know what that path is. So I think that he meant to say That the achievement of his father’s goals will be the avenging of his father’s assassination.
And that is a much better reading of thinking that Mojtaba Khamenei is going to send some mercenaries to the United States or do something to kill Trump.
Hovik: All of that is is rhetorical warfare. But in reality, I maintain my skepticism about any kind of long term truce, and especially with Israel firmly in control of the U.S. Congress. And no matter what, I mean, I think also come November, Trump’s hand is going to be severely weakened if he had any in terms of more pro-Israeli policies, and especially, you know, attempts by the Democrats now to impeach him, which is surely going to happen.
Now, the global oil prices fluctuated wildly, and the situation appeared to be escalating over the weekend towards all-out war. With some in Washington calling for ground operations to reopen shipping lanes. But as of Monday, July 13, when we’re recording this, there is a bit of a lull, so we are in suspense mode again. Asbed, what are your thoughts about all of this?
Asbed: It’s really funny, Hovik, because all of these sudden escalations on the part of Trump happen on a Friday or a Friday afternoon, after which the markets close. And then there are all these news that the markets are fluctuating, oil prices could And then Monday comes and after two days of possible war or missiles or strikes or something like that, there’s some sort of understanding that is rumored about just to keep the markets from crashing. So I think there’s a lot of manipulation on the part of Trump that’s going on.
Hovik: How much money can he make from this war? That’s crazy. Well, for last year, he declared $1.2 billion.
Asbed: And he said that’s normal for him to do that.
Asbed: Please talk a little bit about this issue that Pashinyan is basically completely tone deaf about Iran’s concerns about the TRIPP.
Hovik: So we’ve talked a lot about the TRIPP on this podcast, the Trump route for international peace and prosperity. But the true name of it is the Zangezur Corridor , which is a Turkish project to link up to Central Asia. The NATO Corridor,
Asbed: the Turan Corridor. Yeah, the NATO Corridor.
Hovik: It’s all the same. And Europe has bought all in on this. Obviously, Iran views this as a direct security threat, and recently Ambassador to Armenia Shirgholami said that Iran needs a concrete institutional mechanism possibly built into the broader bilateral strategic partnership agreement with the United States to manage these risks that it sees and legally guarantee that the infrastructure won’t be used against Iran. And of course, Pashinyan brushed aside the concerns.
He said he’s pushing to start construction as early as this fall. There were a bunch of exploratory architectural teams, I think, from the U.S. who came. There’s a company, AECOM,
Asbed: that is sending people that’s been two or three times to Armenia to do infrastructural architectural work.
Hovik: So Pashinyan basically is arguing that TRIPP will only benefit Iran and so forth. And it’s all bullshit if you have minimal understanding of global geopolitics. But I don’t know who Pashinyan is trying to fool.
Asbed: Yeah. I mean, just tell me, please, how can this Armenian government, the Pashinyan government, realistically guarantee a political neutrality of the TRIPP corridor when he has basically pledged More dangerously, I think both NATO and Turkey now have
Hovik: An increased legal claim to say that they need unimpeded passage so they could take, if anything happens in the future, they could use force to open this corridor. And now they have the guarantees of the United States, at least in terms of Being hands-off because now this is a commercial US project that is a threat and the United States will not do anything to damage its own project and in fact will support Turkey and Azerbaijan in their efforts to strengthen their hold.
So I see the TRIPP as a gradual reduction of Armenia’s sovereignty over the region and it will be followed on with probably More threats, more military action, and this is something that Turkey and Azerbaijan will build on with full US and EU support. You’re absolutely right. It’s not written in stone. Nothing is written in stone.
And unfortunately for us, it will be more detrimental to Armenia’s interests in the future as if Russia and Iran’s interests decline or their power declines in the region.
Asbed: So there was an initiative to sign some kind of a strategic partnership between Iran and Armenia. That really hasn’t happened as far as I can tell. Why do you think the delay? Is there Western pressure, Turkish pressure not to sign, or is it the negotiations ploy?
Hovik: Honestly, your guess is as good as mine, but the illegitimate government of Armenia, the one that stole the elections just a month ago, They cannot do anything independently anymore. They are fully the puppets of the West and they will do whatever they’re being told from Brussels and Washington and Ankara and Baku. That’s the bottom line. So if it’s not happening, then either the terms being offered to Iran are are insufficient or essentially they’re deliberately backpedaling this, which is it’s sad to see because this is a time for that Armenian and Iranian relations can flourish through partnership.
But I can bet Armenia is not interested in increasing its relations with Iran. That’s the bottom line.
Asbed: It can’t, given who the patrons are and who’s bankrolling the continued hold on power for Pashinyan and company.
Asbed: On July 9, I want to talk, just let’s turn our attention for a moment about the border situation and talks between Armenia and Azerbaijan. On July 9, during a press briefing, Pashinyan was asked by the media to talk a little bit about the borders and who controls what and stuff like that. And Pashinyan used this scissors metaphor saying that if you take scissors to the maps, arguing that if Armenia cuts out areas that it wants adjusted, then Azerbaijan is going to cut out Jermuk and Berkaber, which is in Tavush. He said that if we accept the principle of who controls some land, then that person owns it.
That means that we give up our occupied territories. Now, I don’t know, you might think that this sounds legitimate, right? But it sounds really dangerous to me because it treats Azerbaijan’s invasion of Armenian lands, recognized Armenian lands as if they’re bargaining chips instead of any kind of an illegal military invasion. What do you think?
Hovik: To me, it’s clear that he’s setting the groundwork for recognizing so-called Azerbaijani enclaves in Armenia. And he is essentially falsely using the 1991 Alma-Ata statements and agreements for the foundation of the CIS as a But there are several dangerous points. First of all, the Alma-Ata Accords have no maps, and second, The OSCE guidelines for demarcation and delimitation of borders clearly specify that demarcation and delimitation cannot happen under the threat of violence or under violence, which is both happening and has happened at the same time. And it seems like Pashinyan is implementing Azerbaijan’s wills.
One of the other dangerous things he said is, well, if you look at Now, various experts have looked at Azerbaijan money and passports, first of all, and they haven’t seen Artsvashen mentioned as an enclave.
He’s setting the stage for Handing off strategic, critically important, I mean, we have lost a lot of important strategic lines, but this will be the death blow, I believe, which is Tigranashen and the two so-called enclaves on the eastern side of Armenia, what the Azerbaijanis call I think what he’s going to do is he’s going to say we’re going to change the Armenian passports again and we’re going to show Tigranashen and the other So-called enclaves as Azerbaijani territory, as some kind of a guarantee to Azerbaijan, to Aliyev , that they have this in writing now.
I don’t know when the actual transfer of land will happen, but he’s setting the stage for that.
Asbed: Well, I think a couple of months ago, he asked Georgia to start planning to move the gas pipeline that comes from Russia about four kilometers to the west, right? To me, that’s an indication that he’s planning to give up the area that the pipeline comes through from Russia into Armenia over to Azerbaijan.
Hovik: And most of these are infrastructure projects. So maybe he’s begging or asking time from Aliyev to do all these changes, which cannot happen overnight. But I think Aliyev in Exchange is saying that, well, make more statements put in writing that these lands are not yours so that later we’ll have a military claim on it. And what’s also interesting is that when they signed the demarcation and delimitation agreement, If you remember, it went to the Constitutional Court and immediately got rubber-stamped by the Constitutional Court.
Then it went to the Parliament and it received the treatment of an international agreement, essentially obliging Armenia to agree to that demarcation and delimitation agreement. Meanwhile, on the Azerbaijani side, only after Armenian Constitutional Court and Armenian Parliament rubber-stamped it and went under that responsibility, Only then Aliyev just simply signed it. So from Aliyev’s side, even, it’s not an international agreement, it’s just something he signed. That’s right.
Asbed: And I don’t believe that their parliament has voted on this at all.
Hovik: No, it was only signed by Aliyev and that’s it.
Asbed: Look, Aliyev has boasted in the past that he has no intentions of moving out of present invaded locations. Specifically, you know, there’s, of course, over 200 square kilometers that are being occupied. But I’m talking about specifically the area of Jermuk and places like that, Pashinyan mentioned it in his press conference. In fact, Aliyev calls these places by their Azeri names.
And so when Pashinyan claims that the issue will be resolved through delimitation, demarcation, maps, stuff like that, is there any basis for trusting him? There’s really no basis that I can see. And he and his defense minister and Asryan, the chief of the general staff, I think, basically, they keep saying that not a single millimeter of 29,743 square kilometers is ever going to be conceded. And if that amount includes enclaves, then that enclave will not be ceded.
Hovik: If you believe that, then I have a Then I have a bridge in Barkhudarly to sell you.
Asbed: This is a completely stupid statement, okay? I need to rant about this one. Is the 29,743 with or without the enclaves? If you know that it includes the enclaves, then say so.
If you do not know, then how do you know 29,743? Where does the number come from? It’s complete bullshit. That you have a number that you are telling the Armenian people, and you’re saying that you don’t know if the enclave is included in the maps or not.
And second, Hovik, they keep talking about maps.
Asbed: What maps are they using? They’re apparently not using the 1975 Soviet maps or the 1989 Soviet maps.
Hovik: In fact, in 1988, there are various Armenian officials who were alive at the time and participated in these efforts. The 1988 and 1989 demarcations between Soviet Armenia and Soviet Azerbaijan clearly have a very favorable outcome for Armenia. But all of these are deliberately being ignored. And I believe none of these are mentioned that there are enclaves in Armenia.
And there was some kind of a swap between Soviet Armenia and Soviet Azerbaijan so that we don’t have this enclave situation. But of course, this is not in the interest of Azerbaijan, so it’s not going to accept it. And our Pashinyan government Is essentially claiming no knowledge about this. But there are, I believe, more than 180 something protocols that were signed.
And Pashinyan or pro-Pashinyan pundits or cronies say that these are not ratified and therefore not valid. But for whatever reason, the so-called Alma-Ata Declaration, which has no maps, is being taken at face value and has an imaginary map.
Asbed: It makes no sense. If there’s maps that they are using, then why aren’t they telling us? Why aren’t they telling the Armenian people who need to know before they can make any kind of a decision in a referendum? It makes no sense to me.
Hovik: Let’s talk a little bit more about the internal political scene in Armenia.
Hovik: Early last week, over half of Strong Armenia ’s party list, which has more than 200-some members, they withdrew their names. Now, Samvel Karapetyan has said that this is part of Strong Armenia’s secret plan. I wish he didn’t use that term, but whatever, to bring about a change of government. I don’t know what you think about this aspect, but for my part, I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt to solely ramp up their alliance, their organization, their parliament presence, and vet their people more carefully.
Asbed: You have to. You have to. People don’t even remember that Samvel Karapetyan is still under house arrest. The man is not allowed to leave his house.
The man is not allowed to have phone calls and stuff like that. Everything happens under complete control. Basically, he’s in jail, except he gets to eat his own food and people can talk with him who can visit him. I have no idea how he’s running the opposition under these conditions, but he is.
So yeah, I am willing to give him a little bit of time to figure this out.
Hovik: Yeah. And there was never a chance, given that they have only 29 seats, you’re never going to have a situation when all the 200 plus people are going to enter parliament. So it’s a good idea whether they were pillar candidates to begin with or whether now their Strong Armenia is calling and More hardening their party list. I don’t see this as a negative.
I think this is positive. Some people are reading too much into it and starting to speculate, but I think this is a net positive for Strong Armenia. I agree with that.
Asbed: I mean, remember the whole alliance, the party was born from the Mer Dzevov movement. Last year, in 2025, when the Catholicos was attacked by Civil Contract, the way things have gone in the past year, there’s been very little time to vet 200, let’s say, diehard party members. So some of these people leaving is probably a good thing until you have a vetted base.
Hovik: We’ll see. I guess we should monitor this still. But Strong Armenia is not the only one trying to sandpaper rough edges.
Hovik: Three prominent members of Civil Contract also withdrew their names. But in their case, these were like three governors. Aren Mkrtchyan in Lori, Vahagn Arsenyan in Vayots Dzor, and Davit Arushanyan in Shirak. Now the name Arsenyan should ring some bells because Essentially, they’re the family that controls Jermuk mineral water.
One of the Arsenians is, I think, still is Army’s ambassador to Russia.
Asbed: And I think…
Hovik: Gurgen Arsenyan. And one of the reasons why I think… Russia decided to ban Jermuk in Russia as a potshot at the Arsenians and their pro-Civil Contract stance. But I think it’s clear that Pashinyan is also trying to solidify his support base, although You know, I have to ask all these people, you know, eventually they wake up at night and they have to think about what if I’m left alone?
What if I’m participating in the greatest treason that a willing Armenian government, a republic, has ever done? I think no Civil Contract member can sleep calmly at night because of this. So maybe Pashinyan has some precognition about who’s going to betray him. I’m not sure.
Reduce, reuse, recycle. Recycle.
Asbed: That’s right. Well, the circle of trust is very, very small in Civil Contract. It really looks like if you are going to give up on somebody in a certain role, you’re going to have to recycle them in something else. I’ve heard enough articles and rumors about Arayik Harutyunyan getting recycled also.
We’ll see where he ends up.
Asbed: So let me also finish up this section with the Armenia Alliance. There’s really no news on their party lists at present. I think they’re fairly stable currently, except Robert Kocharyan was in court dealing with the legal warfare that Pashinyan has been waging against him with a bunch of petty accusations, allegations of white collar corruption from 22 to 23 years ago. And I think the statute of limitations has expired decades ago on some of these cases, but it is just harassment.
Kocharyan has told the judge, Sargis Petrosyan, that he doesn’t think that he can get a fair trial in light of Pashinyan’s assertions during the campaign that he is going to destroy Kocharyan and destroy Samvel Karapetyan and Tsarukyan and all the opposition leaders, and that these accusations against him are basically political commands that have come down from Pashinyan to all the judges. So far, the judge has refused to recuse himself from the trial, but frankly, I don’t even know if it makes a difference if the guy recuses himself and there’s a new judge who comes in, because as we’ve talked many times before, we have a problem.
This court has been packed 100% with cookie-cutter loyalist cronies. So whether you get this guy or that woman, they’re all handpicked by young people. The harassment will continue as long as these people, these oppositionists are a threat to Pashinyan.
Hovik: Yeah, as we said, there is no logic other than trying to clear the field, trying to arrest and deprive these people of livelihoods so that they are not a nuisance to Pashinyan. And the attacks against the opposition will continue. This is the fate of anyone who is patriotic in Armenia, and we must bear it, I believe. But of course, we will do our best to keep our listeners and viewers abreast of the situation in Armenia.
Asbed: Hovik, this judge is a Civil Contract linked person close to Pashinyan. What do you think?
Hovik: The core fact is that all the judges have now been, I believe there was some fact that like 90 or 80 to 90% of the Armenian judicial system has now been de facto vetted You know there was this when Pashinyan came to power in 2018 there was this process called they said we’re gonna do vetting and we’re gonna make sure that all the judges are honest but what in reality happened was they did their vetting all right they essentially kept all the judges through who were loyal to them and they did it by trial under fire so if any judge showed any semblance of They opened the criminal case against the judge. They locked them up.
They got rid of them.
Asbed: The so-called Supreme Judicial Council, which is a political body, just basically removed those judges and they’re all gone.
Hovik: The Armenian legal system, especially on political matters, It’s completely 100% now on Pashinyan’s side, and it doesn’t matter if any future international court will overturn these, which will surely happen, but it will take its time. It will maybe take decades, but until some of these people might be dead by then. And Pashinyan will have achieved his intermediary goals, which is to keep the opposition at bay. I think it’s important to mention the repercussions of the Armenian election again.
The Prosperous Armenian party was denied its role in parliament by hook or crook. The parliament is now illegal, but most of the two Armenian opposition parties accepted their Seats thinking that is the best of the worst options. However, that has not stopped Nikol Pashinyan and the Pashinyan regime from punishing Prosperous Armenia for their participation in the elections
Asbed: against him.
Hovik: First of all, we talked about the massive arrests and massive SWAT team style attacks against all of his residences, all of his businesses. They even went to the point of attacking the Olympic Committee, which Gagik Tsarukyan is the head of, and closed it down. There were international sportsmen and sportswomen there, and there’s also a city called Olympavan who were actually training in Armenia and had to stop their training because it was all locked down. They took his animals, killing one of them, a very rare
Asbed: female lion,
Hovik: while doing it. So all the animal rights activists are now saying, oh, well, it’s political, we shouldn’t interfere in it. I think there are less than a thousand of these lions around the world. What’s clear is that Gagik Tsarukyan had the best veterinarians and it was affording these, it was a fully legal paperwork and everything, but the Armenian government just killed a lion.
And for 20 years, I’m going to mention this, for 20 years they were accusing Kocharyan of going on an African safari and he killed a lion or whatever, or he posed with a dead lion during that safari and they were using this as a beating stick against Kocharyan and now they actually killed a lion
Asbed: The irony of it all.
Hovik: So they closed down the Ararat Cement factory and Pashinyan promised to nationalize it. Ararat Cement factory is essentially the major distributor of cement in Armenia and it will have an impact on all the construction projects which are happening in Armenia. Armenia is very strong on construction right now.
Asbed: I think it’s been reopened though, because of demonstrations by the people.
Hovik: It was reopened, but Pashinyan also threatened. He said, if the employees of the factory protest, then as soon as the company is nationalized, they will all be fired. So people’s livelihoods are at stake and many people don’t know what to do, but that is the situation.
Asbed: Well, he’s going to have to import all new population and all new population basically to have new employees to those places.
Hovik: Or alternatively, they’re going to announce they’re importing cement from Azerbaijan and Turkey. So we’ll see.
Hovik: More importantly, there was a new arrest, a new political prisoner in Armenia, who is a mother of underage children. And she’s now one of the only, I guess, female political prisoners who is actually in jail. There are many female political prisoners who were arrested and released in the past, but she’s, I think, currently the only one serving pretrial detention, the favorite tool of the Pashinyan regime. And her case is linked with Andranik Tevanyan’s case for participating in treason.
Asbed: Let me mention that Tevanyan was leading the Mother Armenia party which allied itself with Tsarukyan’s Prosperous Armenia.
Hovik: So this is I think can be seen as a continuation of the punishment against Prosperous Armenian Gagik Tsarukyan. We’ve talked a lot about this case in the past but I will repeat that essentially Andranik Tevanyan had No clearance at that time. He was not an active member of parliament. And whatever is alleged to be leaked from that session, all of the notes from the parliament session are public.
Even though the session itself was closed, it was not secret, but it was closed. But the session It itself was made public through the notes that published on the Armenian National Assembly website. And no one knows what this case is about. And just like 99% of the other Pashinyan regime cases, I’m pretty sure this is going to be about nothing.
But in the meantime, more political prisoners in Armenia.
Asbed: Comical, yet so tragic. Let’s talk about the other parties.
Asbed: Okay, Hovik, let’s not wait everyone. Let’s talk about the Secretary General who offered to help with the removal of Catholicos Garegin II.
Hovik: The Secretary General of the OSCEE, you heard that right? That’s right. So, two Russian pranksters called up the OSCEE Secretary General, Feridun Sinirlioğlu. And posed as Nikol Pashinyan.
They are famous for doing this and world leaders keep falling for it. And they asked Sinirlioğlu for OSCE’s help in ousting Garegin II. And also the fake Pashinyan tried to plead with Sr. Leoghlu that OSCE’s help would be a trump card in his efforts to remove…
Asbed: And also would help change the religion in the country, they said.
Hovik: Yeah, he said, he said, I’m going to change the religion. Now, Sinirlioğlu, I think we have to mention, for those who don’t know, is a Turkish nationality. It’s going to become important, but during the prank call, Sinirlioğlu’s response during the prank call was, Was it like, you know, hey, freedom of religion? What do you think, Asbed?
What do you think he said?
Asbed: He probably said, European values, we do not interfere in your insight.
Hovik: He said, I will do what I can. So far, there has been no response from the OSCEE officially, nor Sinirlioğlu’s office. But what’s important to me is that during that short recording, Sinirlioğlu was heard showering support onto Pashinyan. And when Pashinyan criticized the OSCEE Odir, you know, the international organization that is supposed to monitor elections.
And they did. Sinirlioğlu said, you know, he agreed with Pashinyan. And the OSCEE report was too harsh on Armenia and unjust. I’m using his words.
And what’s Pashinyan’s response to all this? What do you think? Did he say I didn’t do this? I can’t even begin to guess.
He said, the only thing he said is, why is it important for Armenian media to report the ethnic origin of the OSCEE Secretary General? On that point, I think he’s right because We’re talking about the head of one of the largest international organizations offering to help Pashinyan change Armenia’s religion and undermining its own electoral monitoring and electoral reporting efforts.
Asbed: Well, Hovik, the thing is that there’s a certain truth to that. If this Secretary General was an Estonian and said the same thing, I would probably be just as pissed off as I am with this Turkish guy. The reality is that we are so much more sensitive about Turks doing this because of the Armenian Genocide, about the religion differences and things like that. So I think there’s a difference.
What is also interesting about the comment is that it’s coming from somebody Pashinyan, who during the entire campaign showed hate against Artsakh Armenians, making sure that their ethnic origin and even the Artsakh dialect of alleged criminals was voiced from every campaign podium. He stuck it in there every time to demonize Artsakh Armenians, Artsakh itself, the Artsakh cause. He said it’s never coming back. He will do everything he can to destroy them.
So when somebody says that there’s a Turkish secretary general and this guy says, you know, the ethnicity doesn’t matter. And yet his entire campaign was one of ethnic hatred and discrimination. Yeah.
Hovik: Yeah. Unfortunately, that’s true. I mean, I don’t know what to add to that. This incident has been all over Russian media, but oddly, this was not a major headline around the world.
And even in Armenia, it was muted. I honestly think that I tried actually searching for… I had a very hard time searching for the original recording on YouTube, and I think this is being blacklisted by YouTube. But I also heard some criticism from those who are against Pashinyan, saying that we shouldn’t pay attention to this because this a campaign orchestrated by Russian media.
And Sinirlioğlu has no real power to remove the Catholicos. To be honest, we were also initially careful with this. I thought for several days, I thought this was some kind of a fake news, but it apparently turned out to be true. What does it say about OSCE, Asbed?
Asbed: Look, you might have… Sinirlioğlu may have no official powers to help remove the Catholicos, but the preservation of religious freedom is enshrined and foundational to the OSCEE. And as such, the fact that this guy made no solid objection to Pashinyan’s request is kind of telling about where the organization’s political motivations are. I have to say, Hovik, you know, I have a lifelong dream of becoming president of Armenia.
If I were President of Armenia, these guys would never monitor any of the elections in Armenia. We’ve heard enough to know that this is just a political tool and maybe, as Harar Balian said, the reports are written objectively, but then they’re used very politically to whatever European ends.
Hovik: Yeah. And I want to add to that, but a lot of the focus was on the Armenian church, especially by Russian media. And I think what everyone missed the forest from the trees was that essentially the OSCEE secretary general is abrogating their own commitments to freedom of religion, but also more importantly, freedom of elections. He essentially is on tape criticizing The already watered-down reports from the OSCE.
It’s mind-boggling how these things work, and I think that it gives a better idea of what happens behind the doors. And if things like these are being recorded phone calls, I shudder to think what is being guaranteed to Pashinyan in person or in more secure conversations.
Asbed: Okay, Hovik. I think that’s all the topics we have. Let’s close by saying that was our show recorded on July 13, 2026. And for more information, please go to our show notes, podcast.groong.org slash episode number, and check out all the links.
We have links to all of the articles that we found about all the topics that we discussed in this show.
Hovik: Like, comment, share, hype, subscribe. And donate if you can. And donate, that’s right. Yes.
We’re doing this again all using our own time and mostly our own finances. So if you support this kind of endeavor from us, then show it by also donating if you can. I’m Hovik Manucharyan.
Asbed: And I’m Asbed Bedrossian. And we’ll talk to you next week.
Hovik: Have a great week.